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HOLY SH*T!! After watching this video and reading the comments, I am reassured that there are 2 types of riders: bikers and motorcycle owners. A biker isn't too worried about the nuances, a motorcycle owner is. Most comments sound like prime donna's worried about this and that...just f*ing ride! Worrying about warranties and not riding your bike to keep mileage low, is like not F*ing your wife to keep her tight for the next guy. GEEZ!!!
No videos in 7 months? Hope your not dead
Do you have the reduced reach handlebars on this bike?
That fukkn glove 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Get to the freaking point dewd!!! Your flapping too much!
I fell asleep, When making videos, your audience don't have a lot of time to listen to nonsense Get to the point. Learn from Adam Sandoval.
Ah yes, but you see, my videos ARE a lot of nonsense. That's how I like them. I don't know Adam Sandoval, but if you like his videos, stick with him. Mine are long and rambling :)
I really appreciate your candor, because you are the only one I've found saying this about the 116. Keep up the good work.
How much more horsepower and torque? What are the improvements in 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times??? Is it a lot harder on fuel?
Even I subscribed 5/10/19 great video man. Looking forward to seeing you at the shop soon. And the length of the video was fine you were explaining your experience with the bike and letting your followers know what you knew and how you felt.
I have my 2017 Chieftain upgraded to 116 & the correction of the connecting rods done since November 2018 & I love it! It's true that the torque is ever so slightly lower than the 111 at takeoff, but it shines everywhere else. There is no throttle jerkiness anywhere. Wonderful smoothness. While the 111 motor is sufficient the 116 is worth the upgrade.
GEEZUS get to the point
Yeah I had a 2014 HD street bob and paid 5 grand for a stage 4 kit and hated it so much I put it back to stage one. For all the reasons you mentioned, I found out I much prefer refinement and smoothness to just raw power. I going to buy a 2019 Indian Springfield Dark Whore and you talked me out of the 116 Thank you 😉
On your 116 upgrade, does the rear cylinder still deactivate at highway speeds? I own a victory cross country now and it drinks the fuel. If so, can you notice a difference?
The MayorH It does not, but Indians did not have rear cylinder deactivation until the 2019 models 😊
First, annoying review. Get to the point. Stop riding while doing a review. Your brain is elsewhere while you're traveling a highly traveled road. You're going to get yourself hurt if not killed. Pay attention. If your gear isn't right, pull over. Fix it. Then ride. Don't take your eyes off the highway and bars while you fidget with a stupid watch. Please accept this as constructive feedback and not bitching. I have a 116 BB kit. Before and after the fixed connecting rods SNAFU. They are different animals. The fixed version is tamer and smoother and doesn't stall (the earlier BB kit stalled three times on me while idling into a stop light on a cold motor). 1. Yes, the old 116 kit wasn't as smooth in first. I learned that it takes a very coordinated throttle to clutch release operation to make it smooth. I don't realize this issue with the fixed 116 kit but that could be I am already used to it. But it is not super smooth like the 111. 2. Yes you can take off in second gear all day long and its smooooooth ... I do it ALL the time. In fact, sometimes I never shift back down to first and only use second. I have no idea what lugging problem you have. Perhaps you're not adding enough power?3. Yes, the clutch is firmer which is where I think your twitchiness comes from. It did take some getting used to .. like a day .. of starting very smooth in first with coordinated throttle.4. I have Rush exhaust, true duals. The heat issue was no different than with the 111. After getting true duals, there is no heat issue. Best sounding bike I've ever heard and people compliment on the sound all the time. Lloydz dynoed it at 147 max torque and 118 peak hp. You *definitely* feel the difference in power. 5. The original 116 kit did seem to stall occasionally when cold while in neutral and coming to a stop. However, when it was warn it didn't stall. I don't have that issue with the fixed 116 kit. I have 5000 miles on both the original and fixed 116 kits (a total 10,000 miles with the bb kits). With the original kit my battery/starter did take a shit. It was failing to start the bike. And that happened a few times when it was still a 111. Indian replaced the battery and starter for free. With the new kit, I have not had any start issues. My fingers are crossed. I agree, if you want super smooth, stick with the 111. The 116 is much peppier and as such you have to learn how to make it smooth (in first) but that isn't a issue. I love the power of the bike. Do I use that power all the time, no. But when I do it goes and goes fast. I hope this helps.
Hello NC... Where are you? Miss your videos. come on back!!! Hope all is well.
Ok, where did you go ???
Biker tip #1 lose the wrist watch! Lol
Indian best of the best!!!!!This is my dream:)
Long winded but useful information. Thanks
I’m tall, so can I put some taller Handel bars on it?
Could of did this review in half the time. Nonetheless thanks.
Get to the point already !!!
What is this "point" thing you speak of???
I love my 111 stage 2. Thanks for another great review.
Restaurant? Tavern? Who cares? Walking? Shoes? Uh-uh. 17:55 minutes!!! Uh I don’t know maybe.
Good luck with the 116. I’ll keep the 111. If I want to haul ass I’ll buy a Kawasaki at half the price and no headaches.
You bring up a lot of good points that also applies to the Harley M8 engines as well. The bigbore 114 and 117s are those higher RPM power engines, and they dont pull so much at low RPM, which is why I'm going with the 107 with an S&S 475cam, but skipping out on all the bigbore options. I want to keep that strong low end torque while pushing my high RPM power up a bit. Keeping 100ft lbs of torque at the rear wheel, the entire way up till 5000RPM sounds like a much more fun and useful motorcycle.
Have you experienced glowing cylinder heads with this upgrade?
This vid could have been four minutes long.
Could have been, but I would have had less fun making it.
I had the converter removed from my headers on my Stage 2 using Rush slip-ons. Sounds amazing.
had my 111 up graded to 116 its now a high performance motor and has to be ridden like it is
Hope you and Jo are doing well these winter months.
Any new videos coming?
you do know he probably sold his bikes by now right?? it was a good start though then Nothing, You will get the Oh I have been so busy have not had time for Videos routine.
Sounds like it is a lot stronger accelerating but has lost some drive ability on the low end.
The bike's starting and clutch pull stall sounds like a tune issue. They should be able to remap it and help that out.
Get to the point!
Another great video NightcruiserMA !! When can we expect another ?
Nice video! The service manager at my indian dealer told me that if I put a tuner on and if something happens to my motor that they can tell by by hooking up there computer to my bike and see that I had a after market tuner ( which could void my warranty) and indian may not warranty it. I was also told that the ecu?? Is a learning computer that the more you ride it the better it will perform.
Depends on the tuner. When you remove the Dobeck EJK, it is gone and there is no trace left anywhere. Your dealer sounds pretty chicken s-it, I would go elsewhere. No doubt your dealer does not have a dyno!Go where they know motorcycles, no one will give you warranty problems.
At least you're not an HD fanboy
Just found your channel. Dig the vid. I'm a new rider and motovlogger. Subbed ya.
Taking off in any gear other than 1st is lugging the engine, which can damage it.
THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T WEAR A WATCH WHEN YOU RIDE.PUT IT IN YOUR BAG.
GET RID OF THAT STICKER FOR START.
@NightcruiserMA remember they like high rpm above 3,500 to get the best benefit from them.
@NightcruiserMA Did you get your bike fixed?
@NightcruiserMAthey drive me nuts.Only Japanese and Polaris use those damn things
duane howard lol, nahhhh... I'm too old to be worried about stickers! Well, too lazy, too...
Blah blah blah. Wtf
Did you have the pipes & air intake changed too? Doesn't sound like it.Way more power with those additions.
Aftermarket tuning will resolve the torque and power delivery fairly drastically. Stock Indian tuning leaves some to be desired. Yes, I own one that has gone through all the variations with this kit.
duane howard A tuner has yet to void anyones warranty. The 2 bikes that came apart with tuners and big bore kits received new engines with Carrillo rods.Where do you guys come up with this crap?
Why should you go aftermarket, void your warranty, on a product they designed. Harley makes tuners for their upgrades. They also have a smart auto tuner.
Wow I am very surprise by your review. I have a 2018 Springfield Dark Horse and just recently installed the 116 kit and my experience is that the torque is def available at the lower RPMs the power is available off the mark. I also disagree in regard to smoothness my 116 is very smooth. I never start on 2nd gear so not sure of the chugging. Perhaps your bike needs to be re- mapped. When I picked up the bike it did stall on me twice. I spoke to my dealer and he said to ride the bike for at least 50 miles to let the mapping accurately correct itself. On my next ride the engine never stalled on me. What I will say is that after riding the bike for 2 days is that it is a little harder to start the engine. However for me it’s typically taking around 2 starts the first time starting the engine for that day. I understand all bikes react differently but I am 100% happy with my 116kit and love the noticeable power!!!!
Hello Nightcruiser... Missed your vlogs. Do you no longer make them. Really enjoy them. Hope to see more of them again. Have a great Christmas and also New Year. Ride safe.
You're very funny dude and very entertaining I enjoyed your video
Maybe you don't have any children may be the mother needed exercise in the chart want to go along you seem to be very opinionated
I wish you just stop tech to watch off most disturbing LOL
I have the Rush slip-ons on my stage 2 Indian 111. When they (my Indian dealer) installed them, they replaced the header pipes with another with no catalytic converter. The bike is the best sounding v-twin I've ever heard. I even had my Harley friends compliment me on the awesome sound.
lol...I sure I heard you say in another 2018 summer video that Indian does make miss-step. What model year is this?? The 2019 has the different throttle modes, and wondering if this was the 2018 model.
All this talk and not one word about a tuner. So, I'll just say it. "The forced EPA tune is not worth having."Indian can't sell you a decent tune, if you want a happy motor, you have to buy a tuner. Second, the bike has a learning ECM. If I change my battery, it takes about 10 days of riding for my ECM to dial back in and yes, it dies at stop lights and sometimes backfires until it dials in. Stop and go traffic lights seem to benefit the ECM when relearning, it could take weeks if you only ride freeway miles. Even if you have a stock 111, I think you are a fool if you are riding without a tuner. If you have a BBK, and no tuner, you are a complete moron. You don't have to go PVCX either, the 111 loves the Dobeck EJK and it is only $250 as well as rider adjustable so no dyno needed. Crying about an engine without a tuner is just plain rookie bull shit. These engines are over the top bad ass in all configurations from stock up when you install a tuner. If we had anymore rookies out here making videos about things they don't understand no one would have a decent running bike.
NightcruiserMA Yes, you get the EPA approved super lean tune with the kit. The bike struggles at 14-1 AFR. An inexpensive Dobeck tuner will fix it and get you much closer to 12.5 or 13-1 AFR, something Indian can't do for you. Lloyd says the stock rods are more than adequate for most uses. I'd bet the tuner on the bike that twisted the rods allowed a red line RPM change, something one would desire for racing but have little use for street riding. The Indian bore and stroke are close to the small block Chevy engines that would turn maybe 6000 or 6200 with stock rods and stay together. At that point Carrillo rods were needed. Indian can't control everything we do, they stepped up and added the rods to the package and now have a bullet proof engine that hangs together with a super lean AFR, a 1200 degree cat by your foot and will take more than the factory red line without exploding. The inexpensive tuner is the missing part for a street bike that lets the TS escape the chains of the EPA and be a very happy engine. A tuner will make so much difference in even a stock 111 you will kick yourself for not installing one when you bought the bike. Dobeck has dyno runs that show an all stock 111 with a tuner has almost the same dyno numbers as a Stage 2 bike without a tuner. Make your motor smile, put a tuner on it, they are only $250 and first time will take you a couple of hours to install. Mark Dobeck invented just about every tuner on the market. His latest is the EJK, it is rider adjustable and dirt cheap for what it does and there is no need to spend additional money in the dyno shop. $250 and you are done, you and the bike will both be happy.
You do know that 1) Indian does recalibrate the ECU when the 116 kit is installed, and 2) Aftermarket ECU's were causing the 116's to blow up, right?
Thanks for another great video ! Really appreciate your point of view.
Engineers design motorcycle motors to be operated a certain way for a reason, that's why there is a first gear on the motorcycle. It is designed to be driven from a standing start in first gear, not second or any other gear for that matter....and the hard starting isn't due to "...mass of the pistons...", that doesn't even make sense, it's due to the mass of the crank.....good video though...
I’m wondering how much that changed your fuel mileage
For the love of God just get to the point. This should have been a 5 Min video
No chance... I ramble and ramble... lol. I hold you under no obligation to watch me rambling :)
It’s not just your motorcycle that stalls. I added the 116 to my 2018 Chieftain Limited and as soon as I did, I noticed that it stalls out. It even caused me to drop it on a turn because it stalled on me. I was furious! I’ve gotten used to it by now, but I wasn’t happy at all after spending over $3000 to get it.
Robert Simmons Tuner for sure. The 111 ecm is also a learning device. My dealer will run any of the bikes reflashed or that have had the battery disconnected a minimum of a hour stop light to stop light in city traffic. I takes mine a couple of weeks to relearn if I just freeway ride. Once it dials in its fine.
It needs a tune...
Overly lean? Who knows? I wonder if you had an aftermarket dyno run?
I just watched your video and I noticed you have the same issue that I have with the bike just cutting out randomly when you have the clutch disengaged when you are about to downshift! I thought I was the only person... I have a 2018 Indian Chieftain Classic and I only had the problem start after I got the stage 2 down at my dealership. I can't replicate the problem ever and the dealership could not replicate it either. The bike starts up quickly every time it happens but there is no rhyme or reason for the bike to stall. The only common thing is it's when I have the clutch disengaged and let the RPM's drop down and the rpm's fall and keep falling until the engine shuts off.
Get an aftermarket tune (such as one from the PCVX) and that will fix a lot of issues. If you have a warranty claim then you can always flash back to the factory tune.
Loose the watch. Problem solved. 😎
“I have a turbo but I don’t like turbos.” I’m done watching this video.
LOL! I know, I know, I know... but hear me out... it *almost* makes sense. I was lured toward a used 2014 Audi S8. Twin turbo S8 with 520 stock HP, now pushing 620 with a couple of mods. I mean, it's forgivable that it's a turbo.... 0-60 runs around 3.1 seconds.
It sounds like your Cam choice was poor for your style of riding. Also a different tune would cure most all your manners on the bike. Take the time and FIX the issues.
Love your safety shirt...
I feel I'm just never gonna be able to go to Indian since I've owned my 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour. What I've seen on You Tube & Read is the power just drops off after 4,000 RPM and my Victory says please rev me to the moon. I'm normally shifting between 3 and 4 Grand but I can go all the way to 6 Grand if I want and I never down shift from 6th gear to pass on the Highway. Just don't think I could get used to it.
Admittedly I'm a harley and buell guy, but I really enjoyed this video. Some of the symptoms you describe (hard starts, chugging down low, twitchy throttle) can be rectified with a good dyno tune and a decent flash tuner.
Slow speeds take it out of sport
A loss of bottom end torque is always a trade off when you go to larger cams. The bigger cams move the power curve up in the rpm range of course with more power but should be understood
Damn bro! Get to the point already. The cam upgrade alone causes some of those low end issues. It's the ol saying.
most people aren't stupid. we know where power will come on. you can choose different cams that will give you more torque. a performance upgrade is something that will be a bit different and most people are smart enough to know it wont run like a stocker.
I think that's true with almost any aftermarket add on. But when it is a kit that is built by the manufacturer and installed only by dealers, I think most people have different expectations.
Those are all deal breakers!
Wes Clark the 2019,sea all look like shit the2018s were way cooler 2019 sucks!!!!I'm
You bone head, "we" don't wear watches, "we " don't care about time... LOL
Cam profile affects powerband.
Years back I bought a brand new Victory. For 3 years I had problem after problem. Polaris didn't feel they needed to help with all the issues. It just scares me off from ever buying an Indian. I've never gone through all that with the Harleys that I've owned.
Are you going to be able to remove that ugly sticker next to the gas cap? Check out Adam Sandoval's Dark Horse: ru-clip.com/video/gGCeUqwjlcQ/video.html. Looks like he did and that's what's left. Is that put on with some special adhesive that's hard to get off? I haven't bought a vehicle in quite a few years but the last one I did, a hairdryer and some WD40 (I think) took off the dealership sticker on the back without out trace.
Just started watching your channel, really good reviews & very well produced. You're doing a great job , 10/10👍👍😎
FOCUS MAN FOCUS!!!!!!!!!!!! Your all over the place with this video.
Just this video??? :)
Ev ya got to remove that tank sticker dude. It's like kids wearing baseball caps with a sticker still on it. It just screams dork. LoL.
@Greg Demott I'm still riding a 16 year old Honda VTX1800 and dont have ANY issues with fueling or lack of torque. I guess Indian is form over function, at least for the big bikes. The Scouts seem fine.
@NightcruiserMA I wish I was like you. I buy something I love its a lifetime contract with me. I still have my very first guitar.
You know I don't keep bikes long enough to worry about stickers... lol
Good video. What camera and mic system you using?
Hi Bob. This was done with a Sony X3000 and an external lav mic (can't remember the model.)
I need an Indian 111, I don't need a 116
Did a nice review. I had a 2017 Indian Vintage for 9,000 miles. That thing had so many issues I can't even start. The engine would not even preform as well as the 07 Stratoliner with 75,K I have. The indian was not very responsive into the corners. The viberation on the floor boards was so bad my feet would not stay on the boards.. It just did not run or manover well at speed. I got rid of it. I gave it a good trial run and it never got any better. If you have to spend 2-3K to get it to run like a stock Stratoliner does out of the box why buy that machine. I still have the Stratoliners and a New 2017 Moto guzzi. Which has out preformed the Indian in every way. I do give Polaris A+ for looks and comfort The Indian was one of the most comfortable bike I have ever riden. Too bad is one of the worst preforming bikes I have ever owned. I have been riding bikes since 1962.
You must have been on a Harley!If it would not corner, you need bars to push the center of gravity back. If it vibrated, something was wrong with it, 111's have very little vibration. Its real sad when someone falls thru the cracks with an Indian, the bikes are so good there is no reason for it.
Good grief, I can't finish this..
@NightcruiserMA thank you.
@Bret Archibald You can see a list of all four things at 10:34 :)
@NightcruiserMA lol, you're a good sport. What three things do you dislike about your Indian?
Bret Archibald Hell, I can't finish watching my own vlogs. I wouldn't ask you guys to do anything I couldn't do 😊
Great review. And good to know. I do not think a side hack will perform well with the 116. So something to think about. I wonder how the 19 mapping performs with the select a ride function.
It sounds pretty cool...
Most reviews say not worth the extra money
I have a 2014 Indian classic. I put the performance slip on exhaust, big sucker intake. Road the bike for a year. 10,000 km. Performance cams came out and I got them installed. Road with the performance cams for 2 years. Complained about stalling at lights, bucking at light cruise at 1600 rpm and the rattling noise was excessive. Wasn't able to get it fixed despite numerous dealership repair visits for those issues. I just recently removed my performance cams and had stock cams put back in to see if it was the performance cams causing issues. I have now verified that it was the performance cams causing the issues. To me the heads up on the rattling noise and the jerking at light cruise in lower gears might be a trade off for the performance. But the random stalling at lights and hard start is unacceptable. I now ride happily with the stock cams.
I have the indian stage 2 cams in my roadmaster and mine doesn't do that. All you had to do was get a PCVX and flash the bike and all the issues will go away
I picked up my 2018 Chieftain Dark Horse back in February of 2018. I had ridden the 111 and the 116 demos the dealer had and just told them to put a complete blacked out 116 on the bike and I'd pick it up in 2 weeks. I also had the bike upgraded with "Elite" items like passenger accommodation, upgraded floorboards and pegs, all Indian LED lights, and a flared windscreen. From that perspective the bike is absolutely beautiful. But from day one the bike ran terrible. Then I connected with a couple of guys on the forums who had their connecting rods come through the engine case. Soon after the "stop sale" and news came out about a redesign.If your not going to get a proper tune on a 116, don't waste your time or money. The stock mapping and timing is complete trash. I waited until my bike was updated with the "fix" which included the beefier Carillo connecting rods and redesigned pistons. I knew I wanted to get the bike tuned and running right so I waited until Biketoberfest in Daytona since I knew most of the vendors would be there with their mobile dynos. I ended up going with Lloyd's/Indian of Charlotte who was setup there on the corner before you cross the bridge. I will tell you, those guys know what they are doing and set me up with a Dynojet PCVX and a completely custom tune for my bike. The result is 123 plus HP and 144 plus TQ. It is by far one of the strongest Indians I have heard of. It runs like a completely different bike. Gone are all the bad habits you mentioned in your video...except for the increased clutch pull obviously.Look, there are lots of people out there selling snake oil for this bike. What I can tell you is my experience. The complete 116 kit (Stage 1 Intake, Stage 2 Exhaust, and Stage 3 BBK) is the perfect match for this bike when properly tuned. And a proper tune is the key. Before, I was like you, pluses and minuses of the 116. Now, I can't find a single bad thing about the 116. Like I said, unless your going to get a proper tune, don't waste your time on a 116. A proper tune in my opinion is a tune done specifically for your bike, not an off the shelf tune from someone else. These bikes will have so slight a differences that in order to get the most out you have to have a tune for YOUR bike. Is it expensive? Yes and no. My complete tune including a PCVX was around $800. It was money well spent.
Can you order a tune for delivery?
This guy is horrible your right moron
@hooka4u2 you know...I couldn't tell the difference between the 111 and 116 heat wise.
how did the mod do on heat?? since it's an air cooled motor, looks like it would generate more heat. like at a stop light or in a traffic jam??
@Barrett Powell Thanks Barrett for the info!
My Suzuki C109 has more power
PFFFT!! My M109R will walk the C109 and any Indian. I was contemplating an Indian until I saw I would have to spend around $6k to get the the same performance as my stock M109R. I guess they don't call the M109r "the beast" for nothing. (cue in bandwagoners now...)
Not a brand fan boy so I do not need it just love it. I am at the age of I do not give a shit what others think its a great time in life once you realise other peoples opinion has no bearing on your life or your happiness.@David Falgout
thats ok you need it since its not an Indian!
Too much talking
a bit more pithy would be nice!
YAk, Yak, Yak..... I just want the bullet points.
northerniltree would you rather he just ride around saying nothing? Good review of the bike.
Well, you know, it's a vlog, so.....
So after all this when are you getting the next bike? Factory 116 kits suck if that's what you got?Who tuned it? and if its the flash for the kit too bad its horrible. You can always do better after market. Do your self a favor, regardless of Maximus or PCVX, Get the dyno ecm tume. Next best is remote tune.
Mumble jumble..just a load of nonsense.
All and every "stage" kits are useless from a standstill. They are designed for high revs which is not healthy for a two cylinder engine
Indian is built to take it. No worries.
A lot of the characteristic of how the engine responds depends on the cams.I think Lloyds cams, not the hottest ones, are the ones that will wake up the bike and offer greater reliability than their hottest cams. Lloyd's cams, engine timing, free flow air filter and a great exhaust will make a huge difference. I think they use something other than the P.C. 5Here you go: The Runaway Performance Indian Motorcycle on Facebook. We specialize in Indian performance parts and tuning! Rylan Voss Indian
Again, it is not an Indian! It is a Polaris.
Bruce Morris It truely is an Indian, made perfect by Polaris. Much love and thanks to Polaris for the incredible job they have done with their Indian Motorcycle, it's not just the best, it is the best by miles and miles.
It's not a Lincoln! It's a Ford. It's not a Lexus! It's a Toyota. It's not a Ducati! It's an Audi. It's not a Chrysler! It's a Fiat. Where does it end. It's just the way businesses do things now. Rest assured It is most definitely an Indian.
using your stupid ass logic then all of these companies are actually proctor and gamble and not their own. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Procter_%26_Gamble_brands
wq , your an idiot!
Chris Carman, well said my friend!!!!
You were actually easier to hear before you closed you helmet all the way.
Yeah, weird, huh?
Get an Maximus tune
I am not sure the engine size is really that important. This is just a marketing ploy to sell bikes. I know that it is the marketing department's job to market bikes but there is more to the feel and enjoyment of riding than a number on the side of the engine. For example Harley 96, Victory 100. Harley 103, Victory 106, Harley 107, Indian 111, Harley 114, Indian 116, Harley 117. It is just like the razor commercials, this one has 2 blades, mine has 3 blades, mine has 4 blades, this the best with 5 blades and so on. I think they believe we are idiots who will just buy the bike with the biggest number on the engine. What about power and torque, feel and sound, reliability and ease of servicing. These considerations are more important than a number. Someone who thinks that their bike is better than another one because the number on the side says 116 instead of 111 is missing the whole point of riding.
Those engine upgrades like the higher rpm. So gun that shit and watch it throw you on your ass.
I agree. I ride a 96 cube Harley 2 up all over and have no need for the biggest motors to have a great ride. If I go Indian, it'll be a 111.
Interestingly, since I did a test ride before buying, I knew what the 116 felt like and it does in fact feel much stronger than the 111 over 2k rpm. It's not as much of a marketing ploy as much as it's something I feel is poorly implemented. Where you're right is that it doesn't matter for the style of riding that most Indian or Harley riders wants. I'll take the 111 all day for its smoothness and flexible power range.